I ordered the plans for the cadtrac 1500 about 7 days ago and I guess they will arrive when they arrive. They didn't explain the delivery process or set much in the way of expectations. Anyway I now have to start aquiring the parts I guess. I just looked at the CDP MiniDozer site and see that he is now going to design an articulating loader. Will be interesting to see how he approaches the project. I hope to build a usefull machine for a good price. That's enough for now. Hope to get some advice from some of the other builders out there. The one question I have is the Surplus Center a good place to buy parts and has anyone had experience shipping to Canada?

Chas, I think it took 14 days to get the plans to me from when I ordered them and I am a lot closer and did not have to mess with an international border.
Start gathering the parts and pieces for the cadtrac and browse some of the modifications to the center joint. Cam and Rollin used the stock pivot joint. Tim (Projectnut) had to rebuild his joint to take the extra torque from the modifications.
Matt built a heavier joint then Tim's for his version of the cadtrac.
Dan.

Chas, try princess auto, they're a surplus place in canada. http://www.princessauto.com/

Chas, try princess auto, they're a surplus place in canada. http://www.princessauto.com/

Chas

I used Princess auto for all the valves,cylinders, hoses and the pump. If I'd been a sharper shopper, I'd have bought the 20HP Honda powerplant there too.

Since I built my machine, P.A. has started to stock flow dividers as well.

I used a rotary steering valve on my machine (Eaton? don't recall)

Russel metals delivered the steel to my place at no extra chg as it was well over the minimum at that time.

The biggest trick to saving from P.A. is to watch the flyers like a hawk, the Prince pumps and BM 40 series valves seem to go on sale regularly.

FWIW, the pivot joint on the Camtrac is not as per the cadtrac design. I built a clevis (U) type arrangement that has served OK, but not a stellar design. The legs of the U should have had a wider sread, and I should have paid more attention to grease channels as there is definitely some slack int eh joint now which allows to machine to "arch it's back". I managed to bend the laoder on mine. I haven't torn it down to find the bend yet, but I really should soon. I didn't put an hour meter on mine, but I would guestimate the hours to date at 250 - 300 hours. It has moved a lot of dirt and snow as well as moved the chicken run every two weeks on average for 2 years.

Editted P.S. the Camtrac build thread is on the old site here... http://www.machinebuilders.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1158&PN=1&TPN=1

As has been mentioned, I used the stock pivot, in retrospect, beef it up would be my advice. I bent this not too long ago, admittedly I was doing something I shouldn't have been and had things way overloaded, but I think that is the natural course of events. A guy always wants to do just "a little bit more".,, Thicker plate would have solved my problem, but for all around use, the way project nut solved this is great.

I bought quite a lot of stuff from surplus center, and have been very happy with the service and the items,, I don't know what issues across the border would bring.

good luck!
rollin'

Well I have been a little busy looking for stuff but I did receive my plans it took about 10 days,not bad i guess. I have been shopping at Princess Auto for a while and your correct they do have most of things I need. The wheel motors will be the only issue. I see that the Surplus Center has a good price on a wheel motor that is slightly higher torque and 20 rpm fast than the one that cadtrac is talking about. I think this should do the trick. Thanks for all the advice. I am looking at a couple of ideas to strengthen the articulating joint but don't want to get to carried away with the lathe and mill. That could lead to a whole mess of time.

Like Rollin I started with the original articulating joint on my machine. Mine lasted all of 20 hrs. I decided to do a redesign and so far it's worked out well. I only have about 150 hrs on the machine and at this point there's no sign of wear or impending failure.

I posted sketches and pictures of the new design joint in the "plan modifications and drawings" section of the old photo gallery. There are also a number of pics of my machine in various stages of construction (starting on page 7) in the powered projects" section of the gallery. The new articulating joint extends the machine by 2" so I had to replace the original 2" X 8" steering cylinder with a 2" X 10" cylinder

If you look at the pictures you'll notice I strayed considerably from the plans. My version of the machine weighs in at a little over 4,000 lbs. If you scroll through the pics you'll see I've made a few accessories (plow, forks, & log splitter) to enhance the usability of the machine.

The machine was originally built (2002 - 2005) to do some landscaping at our cottage in central WI. After all these years we're finally getting to that project. This summer it should get the workout it was intended to get 5 years ago.

As far as time is concerned be prepared to take a minimum of 10 times the amount you originally thought it should take. When I spoke to John several years ago he estimated build tome to be between 40 and 60 hours. That might be true if you buy a complete kit from him. I decided to redesign several aspects of the machine, source my own parts, and do my own machining and welding. Total invested time is closer to 2,000 hours than his estimate of 60.

Rollin45

"I was doing something I shouldn't have been and had things way overloaded, "

huh, thats the way I Always work!!

Might explain my very expensive repair budget!

I know it's been a while but I am slowly gathering parts. I have the engine which is a vertical shaft and I have made the motor mount for the pump, so far so good. its is a direct couple and the height won't be and issue. This required a slight mod for the rear frame but I think the result will actually be stronger and add some weight. I have been looking at the wheel motors and have a source for the 32 cu. in. motor as per specs but they want $500.00 + for each. I see the 28 cu. in. motors in the surplus center catalogue, looking at the specs I would say that instead of running them at 2000 psi they could be boosted to 2250 psi and end up with the same torque and RPM of the 32 cu. in. motor. I am new to this hydraulic stuff but according to the formulas I have seen and used this seems to be the case. Anyone have thoughts on this? The big issue as discussed in other threads seem to be the availability of hubs for the 1.5" taper shaft but I didn't think it would be too hard to machine out the 1.25 hub on the lathe. Has anyone tried putting a disc brake rotor on the hub and adding brakes this way?

Looks like a lot of people have some really good projects on the go keep up the great work.

thats it for now when and if I get a little further I will start to post some pics but it is pretty basic at the moment.

I tried to post this a few minutes ago. Unfortunately when it did post I got a fatal error and it went to the "Hydraulic Motors" posting. Hopefully it will work correctly this time.

Since I don't have the latest Surplus Center catalog It's hard to know exactly what motor you are talking about. A manufacturer name and model number would help a lot.

Having said that it's imperative you use "WHEEL MOUNT MOTORS" if you intend to have a motor at each wheel (as opposed to a motor driving a differential). The wheel motors have large bearings at the shaft end capable of supporting the weight of the machine and its load.

Here's a link to the White Hydraulics catalog:
http://www.whitehydraulics.com/pdf/catalog/2008/REcatalog.pdf

Page 9 shows an illustration of a standard hydraulic motor. Page 10 shows an illustration of a wheel mount motor. Notice the larger bearing area and more substantial mounting area on the wheel motor style.

As for the shaft size, the shaft on a wheel mount motor is tapered and keyed. A standard motor generally has a straight or splined shaft. The tapered shaft on a wheel mount motor is designed to hold a wheel hub in place.

Since I don't have the latest Surplus Center catalog It's hard to know exactly what motor you are talking about. A manufacturer name and model number would help a lot.

Having said that it's imperative you use "WHEEL MOUNT MOTORS" if you intend to have a motor at each wheel (as opposed to a motor driving a differential). The wheel motors have large bearings at the shaft end capable of supporting the weight of the machine and its load.

Here's a link to the White Hydraulics catalog:
http://www.whitehydraulics.com/pdf/catalog/2008/REcatalog.pdf

Page 9 shows an illustration of a standard hydraulic motor. Page 10 shows an illustration of a wheel mount motor. Notice the larger bearing area and more substantial mounting area on the wheel motor style.

As for the shaft size, the shaft on a wheel mount motor is tapered and keyed. A standard motor generally has a straight or splined shaft. The tapered shaft on a wheel mount motor is designed to hold a wheel hub in place.

Thanks for the response Sorry I did not include all the details so here goes.

28.3 cu in HYD WHEEL MOTOR
New, White Hydraulics RE series motor model 530470W3831AAAAA. High torque output. 4-bolt wheel mount on 5.812" bolt circle. 3-1/4" dia. nose.

SPECIFICATIONS Disp. 28.3 cu. in. / rev.
Motor Type Geroler
Pressure:
2500 PSI cont.
2750 PSI int.
Torque:
9700 in-lbs. cont.
10475 in-lbs. int.
Speed:
160 RPM cont.
200 RPM int.
Flow:
20 GPM cont.
24 GPM int.
Rotation Reversible
Mount Wheel Mount
Shaft 1-1/2" tapered x 4.53" w/1.125-18 thread and nut
Ports 1/2 BSP
Case Drain None
Size 5.21" x 5.21" x 7.16"
Shpg. 41 lbs.

This is the motor that is in the surplus center catalogue it is definitely a wheel motor but slightly smaller in Displacement than the one that is suggested for the cadtrac. They suggest a 32.7 cu-in motor. which has a torque characteristic of 8698 lb-in at 8 gal/min at 2000 psi. The above motor 28.3 cu has a torque characteristic of 7586 lb-in at 8 gal/min at 2000 psi but can be run at 2500 psi continuously and is then rated at 9718 lb-in. I think this is a good substitute if I run at a slightly higher pressure i.e. 2250?? The problem is this motor has a 1.5" inch tapered shaft and the only hub I can find is a 1.25". Cadtrac doesnot give a lot of detail in the specs only that they suggest a 32 cu-in wheel motor. but if I can get the same torque from the other motor and still be within the rated specs of the motor I don't think this will be a problem.

The only thing is I am not sure if I am missing something in my logic. Thanks for the catalogue reference this is where I got more details on the motors. The RE530 has the 1.5" shaft and the CE has the 1.25 shaft this I think I can resolve if my lathe holds up for a little while longer.

Any thoughts, help, advice would be great.

Thanks

Charie

I'm sure the motor you speced out would be an accetpable substitute. There was a time when Cadtrac offered this motor through Metkit as an alternative to the RE540.

Here's part of a post (concerning the wheel hubs) from when I was building my Cadtrac in 2004:

I just spoke with Kathy in the sales department at Reliable Machine in Kendallville Ind. I had to order a hub for the one I broke yesterday. I was informed that the part #1-545-04-00 is no longer listed as current stock. When their current supply of 132 units is exhausted the minimum order will be 500 units. The current price is $28.20 + 10% steel charge, + $10.00 handling charge per order + shipping.

I think you can still order the new upgraded part. It isn't under the same part number. Here's some contact information:

Reliable Tool and Machine Co., Inc.
300 W Ohio St
PO Box 757
Kendallville IN 46755-0757

Toll-Free: 888-347-5566
Phone: 260-347-4000
FAX: 260-347-5552
e-mail: sales@reliabletool.com


When I ordered my original hubs they sent me to a distributor. When I gave the distributor the part number they said they didn't carry it and had never heard of it. I called back to Reliable Machine and explained the situation to Kathy. She transfered me to sales and within less than a week I had all the hubs in hand

Thanks for the information I won't get much done next week as I have to go on vacation. Basically that's another project called the cottage. I have to build a shed and a deck. Oh well no sense just sitting around. I will order the motors from Surplus center and check out reliable tool as suggested.

I had started down the Cadtrac path and was researching the wheel motors. I found the same motors at surplus center for a pretty good price. I actually got the same info from Projectnut about Reliable Machine. I talked to someone and they said they would only make big lots. I couldn't get anywhere with them.

(Disclamer: I didn't have plant yet I just figured out which motors were specified and was looking for alternatives.)

I ended up redesigning a new machine from the ground up. I have a set of axles from a 75 Chevy 3/4 ton with chevy 12 bolt axles. I plan on driving the transfer case with a single motor, obviously I will use stock tires and rims. It will have brakes built in also. My machine morphed into one about double the cad trac size.

Back on target sorry about the ramble..

If you are able to acquire 1.5" tapered hubs detail the info because I couldn't get them.

Hmm, the wheel motors on the Camtrac have straight shafts. Might be an alternative if the tapered hubs are too hard to find. IIRC, I used weld-in hubs for sprockets from the local discount house.

Well I have received my motors and hubs from Surplus Center, actually quite pleased with the shipping costs and border fees so I think it was a good experience all round. I purchased the 1.25" hubs and have had them turned out to 1.5" succesfully there is still a lot of steel left so they should be just fine. I guess the next step is to by some steel and get started with the rest of the fabrication. Hope to get to that in the next few weeks. I have a question about the hydraulics, I can buy a joystick control for a loader, open center with a bucket float option I am thinking this will work as well or better than the 2 spool valve specified in the plans. Any thoughts. Hope everyone is having a good summer, it's been really hot in Toronto, not really great for welding, really build up a sweat. Been in the 30+ degrees C. up until yesterday and they say with the humidity it is more like 40 degrees. Too hot to have the torch going I think.

Keep pluggin along Chas. I understand the heat thing. We just got a little break here in Salt Lake and it's only been hitting about 32 C for the past few days.
Doc